My Debate with A Christian Warmonger

Recently, one of my family members shared a post I had on my Facebook page called “I’m Not Voting”. You can read it here. A great philosopher of freedom, David Gordon, brings forth just a quick, ethical reason on why he’s not voting in the presidential race in a few days. He hits on some moral issues on why I too, am not voting in this race. Well, this didn’t go over to good with, what I like to call, a Disciple of Democracy. This is the debate that followed between myself and a woman whose name I’ve changed.

DOROTHY: If you don’t vote you have no right to complain.

ME: If you do vote you have no right to complain. The non-voters have used Reason to consciously decide not to choose between puppet A and puppet B which are both evil. If you love liberty, the constitution, the free-market and peace, I don’t know how anyone can endorse any of these two so-called candidates, who represent everything opposite of what our Founding Fathers tried to establish.

DOROTHY: Not to vote is to vote. It’s a vote for the current socialist administration.

ME: I agree with you 100 percent Dorothy, about this horrible administration. But my disdain for Obama doesn’t fuel my enthusiasm for the socialist Romney either (who promises not to cut anything and won’t balance the budget until 2030). Anyway, our government is the most powerful, corrupt, imperial entity on the planet, they’re not going to let “elections” get in the way on their agenda. That’s why our choices are between these two fascist clowns. The only option is to withdrawal our consent to be governed by those who’ve exceeded their constitutional allotted power. Change is not going to happen via the political process; like the American Revolution, it has to come from the hearts and minds of the people.

DOROTHY: Totally disagree with you and think you have your facts wrong on Romney but you won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. I know I will answer to God for what I did with the freedom He gave me to vote so not to vote is not an option for me.

ME: I don’t mean to go back and forth, but I like these conversations! Do you honestly think Jesus Christ, the Man of Peace, would really want you to vote for someone who utilizes force for desired purposes? Don’t you think a lot of Christians these days have replace their faith in God with that of American democracy? A few months ago, an American Drone strike killed innocent civilians during their wedding. Kids were killed. This happens all the time, but you don’t hear about it. Can we morally justify these murders just because it’s our “side” that has done it? I believe Jesus wants his followers to evade evil, not participate in it. I think the government is beyond repair and it’s up to the people to use the great Christian principles of Peace, Honesty and Love to transform our own little communities.

DOROTHY: God ordained government. And I’m not sure where you get Jesus is the man of peace. That’s no where in scripture. Read Revelation. He’s coming back as a lion to destroy the earth. He is the Son of God and if you read the OT you will see God commanded war of his people. Until Christ returns we all have to do what our consciences tell us to do knowing we will stand before God in the end. I’m not a one issue person. To me the war to be concerned about is the war against unborn innocent babies. The war against our freedom of speech. The war against marriage between a man and a woman. The war against our economy. The war against small businesses and the class warfare being waged. These are the many issues we face as a country and these are the issues God is going to hold us accountable for.

ME: “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

DOROTHY: Is Jesus really a man of peace? Wait till he comes back! –he fights the Anti-christ and conquers the whole world. Also, he wasn’t so peaceful when he cleared the Temple that one day. Nevertheless, it is true when he was on the earth that he taught his disciples to ‘turn the cheek’. He never lead an army or even resisted his own arrest–but went willingly to his death.
But he also said in Luke 22:36
“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag, and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Ecclesiastes tells us there is a time for war and a time for peace. You have chosen to be a one issue voter and that is your decision. I think that is extremely short sided but that is why our freedom is so important. We can have different opinions. But that freedom could be taken away because of your short sidedness.

ME: Oh Dorothy, your perverted view of the scripture is why Christianity is in such decline. Your comments are very disturbing, illogical and almost sounds Jihadi like. “Flipping the table over” is not mass murder. It seems like your hatred for anyone who thinks outside of what you’ve been conditioned to think overpowers your ability to decipher between good and evil. Am I really a “one-sided” voter. I have about as many reasons for not voting for the lesser of two evils as you have for voting for it. I think you went off the rails a little bit with these comments and I truly believe these unsound thoughts that you and some people harbor is why America is in such massive decay.

DOROTHY: Wow. Superior you.

ME: Not superior, just awake.

Now, you can see that some of her arguments are very elementary. Unable to have a thought of her own, she’s forced to the regurgitation of talking points from Glenn Beck or Fox News.  You can tell she is set in her ways and no amount of evidence, facts or ideas will ever change her worldview. She has completed her intellectual growth process and will block out all other logical explanations that doesn’t mesh with her set outlook. And she will be smug and self-satisfied with this lack of knowledge for the rest of her life.

One of the most startling things in America today is some of the distorted ideas that are peddled by some Christians. This woman embodies the self-righteous nationalism that fuels the divisiveness in our country. Unable to have peace in her soul, this woman snags a few verses from scripture to substantiate her appetite for bloodshed on anyone who is not like her or thinks like her. She is a hypocrite in the worse way. She claims she cares about “the war on babies” here in this country, but doesn’t have a care in the world for them in another. For some reason I don’t think Jesus views the world with geographical boundaries. But unfortunately, humans do, especially Americans.

Anthony Gregory eloquently points out in a great article that “attempting to reach people on the merits of peace and the perils of war is not always easy, particularly when they hold tightly to what they believe are teachings of their religious faith that validate or even endorse war. With millions of Christian Americans drawing their attitudes toward war from the bloodthirsty lessons of pro-war clergymen, it is not too surprising, but nevertheless disappointing, to see so many replace faith in God with faith in the state, and respect for the teachings of the Prince of Peace with the calls for blood coming from the god of war.”

If Christians are to save the country, they’d be wise to start emulating their Savior instead of acting like the Roman soldiers who crucified him.

For further reading on Christianity and war, I highly recommend a book by Laurence Vance called Christianity and War; And Other Essays against the Warfare State. (Click here for it)

Also, I highly recommend a phenomenal essay about Christianity and war which you can read here.



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